It's been interesting to watch the evolution of this List since I
started letterboxing over 5 years ago. Back then, it was the only LB
Talklist around and there were far less letterboxers, so it felt like
a large extended family. Occasional flare-ups occurred, but for the
most part everyone was helpful, much like many of the Regional Lists
are now. Then it began to change, possibly because of all the new
Lists, and civil discussions became rare. It is now to the point
that many thin-skinned boxers are afraid to post at all, and when
they do it is like the Jerry Springer show with many in the audience
slinging barbs while the rest look on with an eagerness similar to
watching contests in the old Roman Coliseum. And now it looks like
we are taking the next step by not waiting for the next flame war,
but actually instigating it by poking sticks at the audience.
All this might make you wonder what the Big List is good for these
days and if it has outlived its usefulness. My answer is I think it
still has some value, if for no other reason than to allow everyone a
chance to let off steam in one arena, thus keeping the other Lists
civil. I guess it is just human nature to want to see a good fight
once in a while. So keep the blows above the belt and let the Games
continue.
Silver Eagle
Big List Evolution
4 messages in this thread |
Started on 2008-01-14
Big List Evolution
From: Silver Eagle (sileagle@alltel.net) |
Date: 2008-01-14 14:51:35 UTC
Re: [LbNA] Big List Evolution
From: Andrew A (familyof6portland@yahoo.com) |
Date: 2008-01-14 08:10:29 UTC-08:00
As Johnny Depp's character in Pirates of the Caribbean....Big fire....Big Fire. Thanks for the insight!
Silver Eagle wrote: It's been interesting to watch the evolution of this List since I
started letterboxing over 5 years ago. Back then, it was the only LB
Talklist around and there were far less letterboxers, so it felt like
a large extended family. Occasional flare-ups occurred, but for the
most part everyone was helpful, much like many of the Regional Lists
are now. Then it began to change, possibly because of all the new
Lists, and civil discussions became rare. It is now to the point
that many thin-skinned boxers are afraid to post at all, and when
they do it is like the Jerry Springer show with many in the audience
slinging barbs while the rest look on with an eagerness similar to
watching contests in the old Roman Coliseum. And now it looks like
we are taking the next step by not waiting for the next flame war,
but actually instigating it by poking sticks at the audience.
All this might make you wonder what the Big List is good for these
days and if it has outlived its usefulness. My answer is I think it
still has some value, if for no other reason than to allow everyone a
chance to let off steam in one arena, thus keeping the other Lists
civil. I guess it is just human nature to want to see a good fight
once in a while. So keep the blows above the belt and let the Games
continue.
Silver Eagle
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Silver Eagle
started letterboxing over 5 years ago. Back then, it was the only LB
Talklist around and there were far less letterboxers, so it felt like
a large extended family. Occasional flare-ups occurred, but for the
most part everyone was helpful, much like many of the Regional Lists
are now. Then it began to change, possibly because of all the new
Lists, and civil discussions became rare. It is now to the point
that many thin-skinned boxers are afraid to post at all, and when
they do it is like the Jerry Springer show with many in the audience
slinging barbs while the rest look on with an eagerness similar to
watching contests in the old Roman Coliseum. And now it looks like
we are taking the next step by not waiting for the next flame war,
but actually instigating it by poking sticks at the audience.
All this might make you wonder what the Big List is good for these
days and if it has outlived its usefulness. My answer is I think it
still has some value, if for no other reason than to allow everyone a
chance to let off steam in one arena, thus keeping the other Lists
civil. I guess it is just human nature to want to see a good fight
once in a while. So keep the blows above the belt and let the Games
continue.
Silver Eagle
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [LbNA] Big List Evolution
From: Angela Englund (angelaenglund@gmail.com) |
Date: 2008-01-14 08:33:25 UTC-08:00
I certainly don't want to see any fighting or start anything. But I know
what you're talking about.
-Angela
On Jan 14, 2008 8:10 AM, Andrew A wrote:
> As Johnny Depp's character in Pirates of the Caribbean....Big
> fire....Big Fire. Thanks for the insight!
>
> Silver Eagle> wrote: It's
> been interesting to watch the evolution of this List since I
>
> started letterboxing over 5 years ago. Back then, it was the only LB
> Talklist around and there were far less letterboxers, so it felt like
> a large extended family. Occasional flare-ups occurred, but for the
> most part everyone was helpful, much like many of the Regional Lists
> are now. Then it began to change, possibly because of all the new
> Lists, and civil discussions became rare. It is now to the point
> that many thin-skinned boxers are afraid to post at all, and when
> they do it is like the Jerry Springer show with many in the audience
> slinging barbs while the rest look on with an eagerness similar to
> watching contests in the old Roman Coliseum. And now it looks like
> we are taking the next step by not waiting for the next flame war,
> but actually instigating it by poking sticks at the audience.
>
> All this might make you wonder what the Big List is good for these
> days and if it has outlived its usefulness. My answer is I think it
> still has some value, if for no other reason than to allow everyone a
> chance to let off steam in one arena, thus keeping the other Lists
> civil. I guess it is just human nature to want to see a good fight
> once in a while. So keep the blows above the belt and let the Games
> continue.
>
> Silver Eagle
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
what you're talking about.
-Angela
On Jan 14, 2008 8:10 AM, Andrew A
> As Johnny Depp's character in Pirates of the Caribbean....Big
> fire....Big Fire. Thanks for the insight!
>
> Silver Eagle
> been interesting to watch the evolution of this List since I
>
> started letterboxing over 5 years ago. Back then, it was the only LB
> Talklist around and there were far less letterboxers, so it felt like
> a large extended family. Occasional flare-ups occurred, but for the
> most part everyone was helpful, much like many of the Regional Lists
> are now. Then it began to change, possibly because of all the new
> Lists, and civil discussions became rare. It is now to the point
> that many thin-skinned boxers are afraid to post at all, and when
> they do it is like the Jerry Springer show with many in the audience
> slinging barbs while the rest look on with an eagerness similar to
> watching contests in the old Roman Coliseum. And now it looks like
> we are taking the next step by not waiting for the next flame war,
> but actually instigating it by poking sticks at the audience.
>
> All this might make you wonder what the Big List is good for these
> days and if it has outlived its usefulness. My answer is I think it
> still has some value, if for no other reason than to allow everyone a
> chance to let off steam in one arena, thus keeping the other Lists
> civil. I guess it is just human nature to want to see a good fight
> once in a while. So keep the blows above the belt and let the Games
> continue.
>
> Silver Eagle
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [LbNA] Big List Evolution
From: Angela Englund (angelaenglund@gmail.com) |
Date: 2008-01-14 15:12:52 UTC-08:00
Nastiness is proportional to population? Not always. Check out some of the
arts 'n crafts lists/forums. I've never seen such easy-to-get-along-with
and not-offended-by-every-post group ever. Probably because there are no
rules and regulations to arts and crafts.
Sure, I preach the merits of circular knitting needles over straights and I
prefer knit over crochet most any day, but I don't insist its the only way
or put down people who don't do it my way. You also don't see people
flaming over it. And you can't take arts and crafts too seriously. You
can, but then you'll be a hoity toity artist who wouldn't go near the free
flowing love of a place such as craftster.org and you'd miss out on some fun
times and great people.
There was something else you brought up here but I can't remember what it
was now. But basically my point is: Life is a joke, so make fun of it.
Have fun with everything in life, including letterboxing. Don't go out of
your way to piss anyone off and we should all be fine.
-Angela
On Jan 14, 2008 9:08 AM, Randy Hall wrote:
>
> A few observations, FWIW. JMHO, YMMV, ADA :)
>
> I only saw one message in this thread that I considered
> downright nasty and wish hadn't been posted. Perhaps I'm
> not as sensitive as others, and w.r.t. to that message,
> perhaps more sensitive than others. Some of the rest of
> it seems like good clean fun to me, but WDIK? It all
> seems so Seinfeldish to me, and I'll admit to laughing
> hysterically at some points (and not necessarily at
> the idea).
>
> I think some people take themselves, this list, this game,
> etc., way too seriously. That won't change, unfortunately.
> mapsurferspeak has absolutely no purpose other than to
> highlight this fact and deflect the brewing storm, but that
> never works either. It is best just to remain silent
> and let it pass, tho occasionally it can lead to entertainment
> value.
>
> I lurk on other letterboxing fora. The alleged wide
> disparity between niceness there and nastiness here, at
> least in some cases, is a myth, IMHO. There is some
> disparity, but it isn't as wide as asserted (although
> I do not lurk on Silver Eagle's list, perhaps there it
> is). One such forum that was claimed to be flame free
> has been as bad over the period that I began lurking
> than this list (which hasn't really been bad lately;
> neither were all that bad). Historically, however,
> this list is pretty bad, probably the worst. Must
> be the moderator. But there are flames everywhere, and
> generally for the same stupid sorts of reasons.
>
> In general, nastiness is proportional to population.
> That's not controversial, it just is. Not much to say
> about, really.
>
> In some ways, I think this list long ago outlived its
> usefulness. It is too big to be the "community" it wanted
> to be in the olden days, and there is only so many times you
> can ask about this or that that isn't covered in 50 billion
> faqs 50 billion ways from Sunday (IMHO, there is way to much
> chitchat, faq writing, attempted rule making/boundary drawing
> in these documents, but that is a topic for another time).
> So, you get threads on shirt boxing and hypodermic needles,
> (and of course, semiotics, for where else is one to post
> such? -- its not in the faq's I've seen). So, what do
> you expect? Add to the fact that too many people on it
> are hyper-sensitive and take themselves and the game way
> too seriously, and it is not a recipe for a pleasant forum.
>
> Its charter is as forum strictly independent of any website.
> Does that have value? -- I dunno. Its nice when a website
> operator can post operational issues in a wide letterboxing
> forum when they cannot do so on their website, but this use is
> rare; FAIK, they have their own ways of doing that. OTOH, it
> is annoying when 10 people chime in that this site or that
> site is down or back up -- anyone with a browser can quickly
> determine that for themselves. It is also nice to be able to
> discuss this website or that website's operational or other
> policies without fear of censorship from that website's
> operator. Does that have value? I dunno -- in the abstract
> yes, but for all practical purposes, probably not. I mean,
> this is letterboxing after all.
>
> Its value, as a serious forum, would be to discuss issues that
> affect letterboxing nationally. But, for all I know, there
> are already 10 different fora that do a better job at that.
> I think it has a value as a forum to goof around in and hide
> clues, but the historical hyper-sensitivity and insensitivity
> to harf and irony can make that near impossible sometimes,
> forgetting the fact that people who look for clues outside
> of traditional distribution channels are few and far between.
>
> We could vote on shutting it down. I think that would be a cool
> vote. Otherwise, it is what it is, warts and all -- and that is
> not much more that a historical artefact of letterboxing in
> North America. People are free to evolve it as they choose, tho,
> including voting it out of existence.
>
> Cheers
> Randy
>
>
>
--
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
arts 'n crafts lists/forums. I've never seen such easy-to-get-along-with
and not-offended-by-every-post group ever. Probably because there are no
rules and regulations to arts and crafts.
Sure, I preach the merits of circular knitting needles over straights and I
prefer knit over crochet most any day, but I don't insist its the only way
or put down people who don't do it my way. You also don't see people
flaming over it. And you can't take arts and crafts too seriously. You
can, but then you'll be a hoity toity artist who wouldn't go near the free
flowing love of a place such as craftster.org and you'd miss out on some fun
times and great people.
There was something else you brought up here but I can't remember what it
was now. But basically my point is: Life is a joke, so make fun of it.
Have fun with everything in life, including letterboxing. Don't go out of
your way to piss anyone off and we should all be fine.
-Angela
On Jan 14, 2008 9:08 AM, Randy Hall
>
> A few observations, FWIW. JMHO, YMMV, ADA :)
>
> I only saw one message in this thread that I considered
> downright nasty and wish hadn't been posted. Perhaps I'm
> not as sensitive as others, and w.r.t. to that message,
> perhaps more sensitive than others. Some of the rest of
> it seems like good clean fun to me, but WDIK? It all
> seems so Seinfeldish to me, and I'll admit to laughing
> hysterically at some points (and not necessarily at
> the idea).
>
> I think some people take themselves, this list, this game,
> etc., way too seriously. That won't change, unfortunately.
> mapsurferspeak has absolutely no purpose other than to
> highlight this fact and deflect the brewing storm, but that
> never works either. It is best just to remain silent
> and let it pass, tho occasionally it can lead to entertainment
> value.
>
> I lurk on other letterboxing fora. The alleged wide
> disparity between niceness there and nastiness here, at
> least in some cases, is a myth, IMHO. There is some
> disparity, but it isn't as wide as asserted (although
> I do not lurk on Silver Eagle's list, perhaps there it
> is). One such forum that was claimed to be flame free
> has been as bad over the period that I began lurking
> than this list (which hasn't really been bad lately;
> neither were all that bad). Historically, however,
> this list is pretty bad, probably the worst. Must
> be the moderator. But there are flames everywhere, and
> generally for the same stupid sorts of reasons.
>
> In general, nastiness is proportional to population.
> That's not controversial, it just is. Not much to say
> about, really.
>
> In some ways, I think this list long ago outlived its
> usefulness. It is too big to be the "community" it wanted
> to be in the olden days, and there is only so many times you
> can ask about this or that that isn't covered in 50 billion
> faqs 50 billion ways from Sunday (IMHO, there is way to much
> chitchat, faq writing, attempted rule making/boundary drawing
> in these documents, but that is a topic for another time).
> So, you get threads on shirt boxing and hypodermic needles,
> (and of course, semiotics, for where else is one to post
> such? -- its not in the faq's I've seen). So, what do
> you expect? Add to the fact that too many people on it
> are hyper-sensitive and take themselves and the game way
> too seriously, and it is not a recipe for a pleasant forum.
>
> Its charter is as forum strictly independent of any website.
> Does that have value? -- I dunno. Its nice when a website
> operator can post operational issues in a wide letterboxing
> forum when they cannot do so on their website, but this use is
> rare; FAIK, they have their own ways of doing that. OTOH, it
> is annoying when 10 people chime in that this site or that
> site is down or back up -- anyone with a browser can quickly
> determine that for themselves. It is also nice to be able to
> discuss this website or that website's operational or other
> policies without fear of censorship from that website's
> operator. Does that have value? I dunno -- in the abstract
> yes, but for all practical purposes, probably not. I mean,
> this is letterboxing after all.
>
> Its value, as a serious forum, would be to discuss issues that
> affect letterboxing nationally. But, for all I know, there
> are already 10 different fora that do a better job at that.
> I think it has a value as a forum to goof around in and hide
> clues, but the historical hyper-sensitivity and insensitivity
> to harf and irony can make that near impossible sometimes,
> forgetting the fact that people who look for clues outside
> of traditional distribution channels are few and far between.
>
> We could vote on shutting it down. I think that would be a cool
> vote. Otherwise, it is what it is, warts and all -- and that is
> not much more that a historical artefact of letterboxing in
> North America. People are free to evolve it as they choose, tho,
> including voting it out of existence.
>
> Cheers
> Randy
>
>
>
--
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]